Million Dollar PIVOT

Episode 54 - Finding a Satisfying Career as a Multi-passionate Entrepreneur with Debra Wanger

Episode Summary

Are you a multi-passionate entrepreneur? If so, maybe you often find yourself asking, "How can I find work that allows me to lean into all of my strengths and passions?" If this sounds like you, you're in for a treat with today's episode! Meet Debra Wanger. Debra is a Certified Bulletproof Human Potential Coach. As a coach, Debra helps her clients focus on their goals, figure out an action plan to crush those goals, find and eliminate the obstacles to achieving them and provide the accountability necessary to get the life of their dreams. Having worked as a professional actor and Hollywood talent manager, many of her clients are actors and creative types seeking a healthy lifestyle balance while maintaining an exciting, satisfying creative career. Listen in to hear about how Debra cultivated a satisfying career by connecting her passions for acting, teaching, and coaching. Connect with Debra: Connect with Jamie: Join her FREE Facebook Group, Influencer Circle:

Episode Notes

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Connect with Jamie:

Join her FREE Facebook Group, Influencer Circle -

Episode Transcription

Jamie  0:00  

Hey everyone, this is Jamie Wolf with another episode of million dollar pivot. so pleased to have you joining us. This is the show where we talk about how things are going along swimmingly until you reach that waterfall and you're not expecting it and you're wondering what on earth to do. And if you happen to go over, it doesn't necessarily feel great. But the good news is, it does take you someplace where you really wanted to be who knew. So I love to invite guests on the show to talk about the times where they did not have a straight line in their journey, it maybe didn't feel great going through that. And yet we discover we have strengths and resilience that we didn't know about. And we find out you know, all sorts of cool things, talking to our guests that maybe will help you get through whatever it is you're going through right now. So today, I'm very pleased to have Debra Winger, join us and please go ahead and introduce yourself. Tell the listeners a little bit about yourself.


Debra  0:58  

Hi, well, thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I am an actor, singer, public speaker health and wellness coach, slash writer. How's that for some hyphens?


Jamie  1:09  

Wow, that's like the modern version of the last name, you know, hyphen, hyphen, hyphen, hyphen. Right? So I'm guessing that when you were like five, and people said, Hey, Deborah, what do you want to be when you grow up? You know, there's not all those extra words. And I don't think there's a major in college with all of those combined things.


Debra  1:33  

So it was a long journey to connect all those dots and earn all my hyphens. When I was a kid, I wanted to either be a veterinarian, or an actor. And then I found out you have to see animals bleed, and you have to when you're in veterinarian, and I couldn't deal with that I couldn't deal with the sick animals. So I decided the theater was the way to go. And when I was nine, I started acting, singing, dancing, all of it, my brother was in a theater troupe and I got to watch him and his friends, many of whom are now famous, do their thing. And I said, I wanted to do that. So that's what I did. And I just went full speed ahead for a long time. And that made me happy until it didn't. I was pretty successful actor, I was working a lot and I was not happy. I was fat, and depressed and broken out and had very little energy. And when I wasn't working, because you know, all actors go through periods of employment and unemployment. That's just the cyclical nature. Just like entrepreneurs, right? We you're always looking for the next gig, you're always out there hustling, and it's all self generated. But when I wasn't working, or really on my, my a game, I was very depressed, I was very isolated, I was very unhappy. So I was getting my dream, but I wasn't setting the bell for me. It just wasn't working. So I went to went back to school, and I finished my undergraduate degree, got a degree in sociology and kind of act like a normal person for a few years. And I realized I didn't have to be an actor to be a valuable person, which sounds kind of obvious, but I didn't know that I thought that was the only thing that brought me value was that I could sing really high or pretend to be other people or, you know, cry on cue. So that was interesting to learn about to kind of balance myself out. So then I went to LA and I worked in Hollywood, I thought I'll work in the business side of things that'll be a more normal life. Ah, that sounds really funny now, but that's what I thought I could have a more balanced career. And I did, I worked at the world's largest challenge agency for a couple years, and I worked as a talent manager. And I learned a ton of things, but that still didn't scratch the itch for me. And then I moved on to San Diego, where I am now and met my now ex husband met the father, my children had had some children went back to acting and things were going pretty well but I still wasn't healthy and I still really didn't find my balance. So after kissing a lot of frogs and finding my going through my health journey, I finally found some things that worked for me health wise, and got certified as a health coach. Partially for my own use, but also I thought I wanted to help other people. And my I did help a friend, you know, casually helping him I helped him lose 80 pounds. So he's like, you're really good at this. You should coach like okay, so I did. So then I like Okay, so now I'm an actor. I'm a teacher. I'm a mom, I'm a former Hollywood business person. I'm a health coach. How does this Connect like this is like all my different hats. I don't you know, I only have one head how many hats Can I wear? And someone said you know, these are all facets of you. These are all things that you that make you unique. It is not like totally disjointed. It actually works together. So, I still work as an actor or sometimes, you know, COVID willing, but I work as a coach, coaching actors, creatives and entrepreneurs on health and wellness and difficult professions. So that's, I found a way to connect them all. So I've written a couple books on health and wellness, for actors, and I've been speaking and writing and coaching and translating that into the entrepreneurial life. Because entrepreneurs, you know, they're actors, actors are entrepreneurs, you're always auditioning. And that Yeah, I guess that's, that's what leads me to what I'm doing now. So that's how I connected all my dots.


Jamie  5:38  



Debra  5:40  

And I think I did breathe once or twice.


Jamie  5:44  

It's a good thing that's part of your health coaching probably is remember to breathe. Hi, I


Unknown Speaker  5:50  

do do breath work. Yeah,


Jamie  5:52  

I really, really, really adore your story on so many levels. First of all, that at nine, you set yourself on this journey of connecting the dots, because even though for a time you moved away from the identity of acting, or being an actor, you've come all the way back around, again, to embrace all of these different facets of things that you've learned and participated in and enjoyed. And now find a way to give to others who might be going through some of the, the less happy, or shiny versions of all of those things. So you haven't really strayed away from what you started to do. And yet you have you just found a way to embrace being really fulfilled with it. I have no idea since I don't act. And that is the one thing that probably terrifies me more than anything else, like, give me Not that I want to see anyone or anything injured. But I could probably handle the blood way more than I could handle thinking that anybody was looking in my direction for any reason that I had to pretend to do something. But because you must have an identity when you are in character, I'm assuming that you have to become that identity. How then do you function when you're losing your own identity? Like what was the thing that gave you the courage to move? past? being an actor? And I'm not even making sense with my question. But I'm, I'm really curious about what some of the depression when you were in between roles, that sense of you know, I don't know who what my identity is, right? This? Yeah,


Debra  7:47  

um, one one nice thing about acting is you're given a script, so you know what to say. And you're, you're rehearsed, and a director tells you where to stand and what does Hey, you know, and you think of all the good lines, and you get the guy or, you know, like, it's, there isn't that same uncertainty that real life has? And, you know, what do I do? What do I say? What don't you know, who am I? So there is there is definitely a safety of being rehearsed and knowing what to expect. And even though it's a challenging profession, where you are in the rehearsal room, when you are working on a script, when you are on set, there's, you know, there's a safety to that, right, even though there's an exposure and a vulnerability as well. And sometimes it's easier to be in front of a group for me than it is like one on one, you know, really intimate and one on one. As far as the losing myself in it, I think part of the, when I discovered that I had value as more than an actor and more than my talent. That was a big piece of it, because I honestly didn't think oh, you know, think I was smart, or people liked me or, or that I had anything to give. So by by removing the one thing that I thought people liked me for, I was able to figure out, Oh, I didn't die, right, the world did not come to an end. And one of the great gifts that that gave me and you know, I went off and I went to college, and I didn't study acting, I didn't, people didn't even know that that was a part of my past. So I was able to kind of balance myself out and build up the other parts of myself that I didn't hadn't, hadn't worked on and just get to use my brain and just get to be a normal person for a while. But one of the great gifts that that gave me is that anytime we put all of our eggs in one basket, and give all of our value to any one thing, we're putting ourselves in jeopardy of misery pretty quickly. If my career is it has to be successful, or else I'm just a failure at life, or my relationship has to be successful or I'm a failure at life or my beauty or whatever it is. If we lose that one thing or take a big hit to that one thing, we're crushed, and we've got nothing else so when I learned that Okay, great, I have some acting talent, and some people like to just see me perform. But once I was able to say, but that's just a piece of me, and that's, that's my job. But there's, I have a lot more to offer. And I have a lot more interests and a lot more that I do, then, all of a sudden, I wasn't so crushed when my career was not perfect as I wanted it to be. And I think that translates to all professions. Right, you know, if, you know, oh, I, you know, you're a supermodel, and then you, you know, you you age out of it, and you lose your looks, or whatever. And if that's the whole thing that you were giving yourself value for you, what do you do that? Right, so finding your finding the balance, finding value, in a lot of different interests, and a lot of different people and a lot of different situations, not just your job was a huge piece of it. For me.


Jamie  10:49  

I think that's really, really important for folks who are listening now, because with the world turned upside down for what we thought originally might be, you know, a little bit and then it's turned into a longer bit. And then you know, who knows what happens next. But this idea of, if you had a job if you had a career, and then things were downsized or shrinking, if you had a home in a nice neighborhood, and now you don't have that home anymore, if you had a relationship and the stress and the strain of all of the different external combined things has changed that you still have to get up in the morning. And knowing how to not let the external world define you. But be able to find your pieces of value and go out into the world. And realize, gosh, you still have so much to offer. And perhaps you just never had the opportunity to give yourself permission before to explore those things. So I think you raised some really, really interesting points about being able to recognize and appreciate your own value, rather than having it being applied through different roles that you've


Debra  12:10  

taken on an external thing is not the house, it's not the Gucci handbag, it's not the car, it's not the whatever. And like you said, so many people have had the rug pulled out from under them in many different ways, whether it's their health or their job or their stuff. It's an opportunity to reframe everything and saying, like, what am I grateful for? What do I still have? If it's not the car and the Gucci handbag and the job and all that for sure.


Jamie  12:37  

Did any of your journey help you in really relating to people and addressing their health and their weight issues? Because I think that's another area that people can be sensitive to, perhaps informed, perhaps not informed? Not understanding how much you know, even something like nutrition and stress can affect your weight, your mood, your energy levels?


Debra  13:07  

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm, I am not a skinny Twiggy girl who just, you know, just eat carrots like I do, I'm fine. You know, I've been through it and I've been substantially heavier than I am now. And I've been depressed and I've been through that I'm not coming from my ivory tower saying this is what you should do. I've I write about this is what's worked for me and this is what works for for my clients and there isn't just one route you know, there's there's a lot of commonalities everyone needs to drink enough water Everyone needs enough sleep everyone needs to eat vegetables and, you know, lean proteins and things like that, but unhealthy fats but but exactly how that plays out is is unique. And, you know, working with someone who can help you figure out what's working and what's what's not is, is valuable. So yeah, I'm not coming from a just an academic place, you know, yeah, I've put in the hours and I've done the study, but I've also just been in the trenches and I've been miserable and I've hated my what I've seen in the mirror and I don't want to do that anymore. And I if I can help other people be a little less miserable with you know, feel feel a love their bodies take care of themselves, especially right now self care is so important. And you know, anything that I can do to help people not go through what I did, that's that's my mission.


Jamie  14:30  

Would you in any way describe yourself as an over achiever as I don't know if you can hear in the background, my dogs have started barking so I'm sorry about that. But I'm hearing you tackle and take on all sorts of new roles and that takes courage. Like actually going and trying to reinvent yourself on a recurring basis isn't something for the faint of heart. So do you now give yourself the grace and the credit To say, Hey, I'm I'm just willing to keep trying things, or how does that feel to you?


Debra  15:04  

Yeah, I do, I thank you for giving me credit for that. I think it does require some bravery to, to say, this isn't working, or I'm not happy, or I want to keep growing. And one of my highest values is to continually be growing and learning and improving. And, you know, I don't want to just stay home and watch TV for the rest of my life. I want to learn things and improve and help people and, you know, squeeze all the juice out of the, the fruit before it's over, you know, and that does mean taking chances. And that does mean that I've fallen on my butt a bunch of times I've had, I've been fired. I've been I've failed. I've done some things that are a little embarrassing, you know, I've certainly had horrible haircuts and the pictures to prove it, you know, the perms in the 80s and all that. So yeah, I've definitely made mistakes. But I think I definitely think nothing, nothing gained.


Jamie  16:00  

Absolutely. It's wonderful to laugh at the things that we've done wrong, or the very stupid mistakes that have happened over the years. And I think if I could encourage anybody to find the laughter sooner, rather than wait so long to go, oh, wow, really? Did I did I do that? Was I there? You know, let's not talk about that. But it is, in the grand scheme of things, it is somewhat comical. And if we learn to laugh at ourselves, then we give permission for other people not to take things so darn seriously. How do you find some of the people that the creatives and the entrepreneurs and the actors that you work with now? How do you find them? How did they find you?


Debra  16:51  

Yeah, well, a lot of people find me through my books. So the resilient actor and the resilient actors workbook, and then I also have an audio book, then I recorded it. So a lot of people find me through through my books, and my website, Deborah And as well as through the human potential Institute, which is the arm of bulletproof which where I did my coaching certification, some people find me through there, and then I'm on on all the social media on Facebook and Instagram and, and Twitter, so I'm, I've got a social media presence. And, and then word of mouth is great, you know, people that I've worked with, that's the, that's the best. The best when you get a testimonial for someone, and someone says, you know, what are you doing? You look good, you seem happier, you seem less stressed, what are you doing? And so when someone can say, well, Deborah helped, that's, that's the the best word of mouth testimonial I can get. So those are probably the best ways that that people find me. And then of course, universities, I've been right before COVID head, I was going to theater programs and and university programs and doing workshops. And the students would read my book, I'd come in and help them think about, you know, about their health and their mental health, and how are they taking care of themselves, and not just auditioning and trying to book the jobs, but having career longevity, and having, you know, being able to deal with the ups and downs that come because that's not something that's usually addressed. So the technical skills are but the but the health and the wellness and then staying sane and a challenging business, those things aren't usually addressed. So I enjoy filling in the gaps. And, and sometimes students want more. So that's sometimes where more people find me as well.


Jamie  18:38  

I think the if there's an upside to what's been going on for most of 2020, it has been an creasing Lee loud conversation around mental health. And I think that it was easy to say, Well, someone is overweight. So let's, you know, figure out how to put them on the scale and fix that. Rather than look at the person as a whole going, whoa, what might be driving any of the habits that are contributing to that? Or is there some underlying physiological thing that is beyond somebody's control, and now they know that everybody else is judging them. So they're got this mental health overlay on top of it with that added burden of judgment. But these days with the isolation, and the uncertainty and the lack of agency lack of control in our existence, those are heavy burdens. And I appreciate that people are talking more about it. But I would think that that would come into acting a bit as well or the creative careers because when someone says Hey, how's it going? Much like a lot of entrepreneurs like oh man, business is good, everything is fine, because God forbid you should admit like crap. I haven't had a new customer and you know, two months and I don't know what to do. So how have you been able to help people think through, or work through or relax around, not having to be on, I'm using air quotes not having to be on all the time and enroll as a creative or even as an entrepreneur.


Debra  20:19  

Yeah, and how to be just yourself. And that means you might not be in and out of the park? Well, I think right now, most of the actors that I know, and most of my clientele are completely out of work. The theater is 100% dead, because you can gather in public most places. And it'll be one of the last things to come back. Unfortunately, Broadway is dark till at least June 2021. And regional theaters. And so live theater, aside from a few things that are airing on, you know, we're doing zoom theatre, or streaming online, but almost all of it is dead. Hollywood has slowed down a lot. So there's very little going on. So there's no way you can pretend you're working because you're not. Same thing with coaching and, you know, a lot of professions. Unless you sell toilet paper, then you're doing great, right. But, you know, hair salons and restaurants and, and public events, public speakers, you know, weddings, you know, all that stuff. They're taking a huge hit. So there's nowhere to hide right now. Right? I mean, I know that, that we're not working. Again, I think it's it's getting back to be it's okay to be you. And I think there's common human experiences that bond as well. And, you know, I, you don't have to be perfect. I used to think that people wanted me to be perfect, wanted us to be perfect. And that's what got us liked or loved. But actually, that turns people off. vulnerability is what's hot. Seeing a real person seeing an authentic person, that's what people are attracted to. And most people don't think that they think, Oh, I have to be perfect, I have to be employed, I have to be sparkly, I'd be happy, I have to be great. I have to be the happiest person in the room. And that's not it, you have to be Martha Stewart, right? And have my impeccable house. And that's not true people. People don't want perfection that turns them off, that makes them stop listening to you stop paying attention to you stop liking you. So vulnerability, reality, Authenticity, that's where it's at. And I think there's that comes with maturity. And it's scary to the beginning to allow people to see the real, you, you know, what if? What if they know that I don't have any clients? Or what if they know that, you know, I live in a shabby apartment or whatever it is. But people will actually feel like they don't have to hide themselves in the same way. So


Jamie  22:56  

I think an interesting comment that I heard sometime in the last several months around entrepreneurship is that some of the entrepreneurs who are really attracting a lot of people following what they do are the ones who are being completely transparent. Hey, I set the goal to have this many clients or hit this revenue mark, I, you know, maybe hit at once but I'm having to launch over and over the cycle is hard. I'm, you know, haven't honed my focus completely yet. But the the warning or the caveat was, you can't really be that vulnerable or transparent until you found a solution. Like you need to be at least three steps ahead. So that for those of, you know, anyone else watching or listening going, Okay, so didn't didn't always go perfect for them. But you, you do get to a place where it gets better, right. And so it's an interesting sharing, and vulnerability of, we do want you to be honest, transparent, authentic and real. But we also really need that hope to hang on to that there is another side that you are going to come out. I think you brought up the idea of just being grateful, shifting that perspective a little bit seeing opportunities where there might not have been any, are you finding that that's helping some of your clientele navigate these days that rather than going okay, when's it getting back? When's it getting back? When do I go back to work and going, that might not happen? So maybe I need to, you know, pivot shift. Think of some new ways that I can take all of my skills and take them somewhere else. Where do you Where do you finding in your conversation,


Debra  24:48  

gratitude is huge. reinvention is huge pivoting is huge. I always encourage people to have an additional stream of income when any kind of entropy entrepreneurial, or creative thing that you're dependent on other people. And that, that you have something else and just not even to fall back on. It's not like that psychological thing, but having an additional stream, whatever that is, if it's selling Tupperware, if it's coaching, if it's teaching, just having something else is, so again, you're not putting all of your eggs in one basket, unless you get it make it to this mega level that that we have got enough money that you have a huge buffer great, then you don't have to, then sitting on the beach could be here, your other gig. But so I'm definitely I definitely encourage you to always be able to have an additional stream have something else that can do writing publishing have, you know, something, something out there. And so this is a great time to lean on that and figure out what other skills you have, completely, it's also a great opportunity to work on habits for taking care of yourself. And, you know, a lot of people this year in 2020, God's so bogged down by the fear, and the uncertainty and just having the rug pulled out from under them, that they couldn't get creative, they couldn't get working, you know, they couldn't be doing the kind of projects that they wanted to be doing, because they just were so freaked out and they just wanted to eat and watch Netflix, and you know, bury themselves under the covers, which I get it was scary. And if you watch the news, you know, if it felt like the sky was falling, and I think part of it is because we realize that it's going to be a while that we're all like, Okay, well, we got to navigate this, this isn't just a temporary thing. But you know, turning off the news, not watching too, not looking at too much social media, that's helpful, right, because that can get you into the, into the fear spiral. But taking care of your health and your stress, and getting enough sleep, eating well, all those things. So you can get to a place where you're out of that constant fight or flight. And then you can get your brain back and get your drive back and then start to be creative and put the pedal to the metal again. Because when you're that scared, you can you don't have the luxury of being creative or getting any work done, you're just in fear. So a lot of what I was working on with people was just getting them to soothe themselves to calm themselves to take care of themselves. So then they could access their brains access their nervous systems to a place where they could start getting work done again.


Jamie  27:28  

That's really interesting to think about, because as you were talking, I thought, you know, the thing that an actor must have a lot of is imagination. And Gosh, when things get scary, I bet you can imagine just how bad they can get.


Unknown Speaker  27:47  

Yeah, that's that's not necessarily a good thing when you when you go to the dark side, for sure.


Jamie  27:53  

Exactly. And yet, I would encourage anyone to think about that. I was like, wow, you got an extra dose or three of imagination, and curiosity, and the ability to mimic. That's amazing. Because one of the things we hear over and over as entrepreneurs is just find someone who's got it right, and do what they do, you know, not copy not steal, but find out the leaders who inspire you figure out what their model is, and execute a similar model. So if you can use your curiosity and your imagination to go see, well, what is somebody else figured out how to do during this time of COVID?


Debra  28:38  

I'm curious, even if you don't know for sure what that person do you think what might that person do? And imagine if they were talking to you, you know, give me you call them up on the phone. You know, whoever your you know, your, your model is, you know, okay, I want to ask Martha Stewart how she built her empire that she was on the the brain from a moment ago. So I don't know Martha Stewart. I maybe I didn't read her book but you can kind of imagine what she might say. So you can kind of think well what would Martha do? And still you know and use your imagination that way because it's amazing what questions you can answer when he asked the right questions.


Jamie  29:14  

And yet that kind of comes back full circle to you need to be healthy, like you need to get your stress level down you need to be sleeping. You also need to be getting out of bed have some sort of routine. You know, get back outside get some fresh air. What are some of the real basic things that you help people with as far as forming habits or getting started on habits?


Debra  29:37  

Well sleep is so important and most people have trouble sleeping either because they don't value sleep enough they want you know they want to stay up really late because they're on their screens a lot and all the blue light is keeping them awake. Or they're up with worry a lot of people have lost a lot of sleep lately are waking up. So really good sleep hygiene has is a great place to start. So that's having a regular bedtime. I have people set alarms on their phone an hour or two before bedtime, saying, Okay, it's time to turn all the electronics off, start doing a bedtime routine. Because otherwise, before you know it, you're watching Netflix or something, and it's midnight, you know where to go. So, you know, use those electronics chair advantage and set an alarm, have a regular routine, get it as the room cool, as dark as you can move your phone and your TV and your computer, everything out of the room. Right, don't have the phone right by your bed, not under your pillow, you know. And if you can turn your phone off, that's even better. But put put the electronics away, put the day away. One thing that's really helpful is just having a notepad by your bed. And so when those thoughts come in the middle of the night, and they're swishing around in your brain, and they are just circling and circling and circling, if you write them down, that helps get rid of them, and they'll be there for you in the morning. So that's, like I said, turning off the news, less social media, all of those things, but not having caffeine too late. Not having too much alcohol, especially right before bed that can that helps you fall asleep, but it usually you wake up. So it doesn't it means worst, you know, you don't get a good quality of sleep. So all of those things as well as if it supplementation for sleep, a hot bath, you know, reading meditation, getting sunlight exposure in the mornings, getting exercise, all those things contribute to a good night's sleep. And that is a fabulous place to start. Because if I, if I don't get sleep, I'm cranky, I'm tired, I can't think straight, I want to eat too much. Like, it's a really good Cornerstone habit, because you can stack everything else from there. And we need to sleep there are a ton of processes that happen at night, with our brain with our memory with our health, that their beauty. That all happened, and we need them. So we you know, I'm an eight hour girl, I encourage people to start with eight out not everyone needs exactly eight, some people need more, some people need less, but that's a good place to start.


Jamie  32:06  

I think the thing that's also super important in this time of not, we're not leaving the house anymore, the kids maybe aren't leaving the house anymore. So your own personal space is kind of gone. If it was ever there to begin with a I feel like as a mom, I used to be like the only one who never got to be home alone. Like if if I was home, it's because I just brought kids home or I just brought the dog home or something like there's always somebody around. If you're setting a schedule for yourself, that also makes sure that you're setting a schedule for the kids. And I think probably what I've heard from a bunch of people, at least at the outset, when kids were home and it's like, well, it felt like vacation. So suddenly bedtime went out the window and no one was keeping normal sleeping hours. And then oh my gosh, there was just total chaos going on. Because meal times flew out the window sleep times flew out the window, again, that whole routine and habit that stems from getting enough sleep. And for the kids who've maybe been home all day is like Well, I'm not tired, and I want to go to bed. But if they're cranking, that's exactly what they need to do


Debra  33:20  

it is. And yeah, and unfortunately, a lot of kids are staring at screens in their bedrooms all day long. They're not getting a lot of exercise, they're not getting a lot of sunlight, they're not getting breaks, they're not getting social time. So encouraging them to walk around the block, walk the dog, you know, play basketball, do any of the things you can do right now. You can just sit, sit in the backyard and read a book for a few minutes to something. And absolutely as much routine as we can give them right now it is very valuable. Because otherwise, yeah, of course, you're not tired. If you didn't do anything all day, except for stare at a screen, you know, and then you want to stay up all night watching YouTube. And it definitely is a negative spiral. So I get it.


Jamie  34:04  

So there's an opportunity, the fact that we are also busy staring at screens. My goodness you you are at the heart of content creation, you know, whether it's written content creation, or it's performance based or something that as soon as you know, we get to go out into the world again, we want to go to the movies, we want that new release out. Heck, pretty soon, even if we can't go anywhere. We want the new Netflix series coming out. So I think, you know, do you have many conversations with folks of Okay, let's you know, use this as preparation time because the demand is just voracious for new content and new entertainment.


Debra  34:48  

Now, absolutely. Yeah. A lot of people have watched everything on Netflix or pretty close, right? And they're like, what's next? What's next? So, yeah, and I do have some, some friends and clients who are creating some things specifically for online. And for the most part is going well, because it's it's a good format, there were some issues with the actors unions, fighting about jurisdiction and blah, blah, blah. But I think we that got worked out. So hopefully that limitation won't be there anymore. But yeah, it's a great way to pivot. And people, you have a very, there's a captive audience. And there is definitely a lot of people who would love some culture and love some something for the brain to chew on. Yeah, it is, it is a great time. And so a lot of people need to work on their filming skills and their, their lighting skills, and you know how to put themselves on tape. And it's, it's a new set of skills, but we got time, right. And there's always YouTube University, right. That's how everyone learns everything these days.


Jamie  35:50  

So if one of the things people are making more time for is reading books, tell me a little bit more about your books, their titles, where people can go buy them, things like that.


Debra  36:00  

My first book is called the resilient actor how to kick ass in the business without it kicking your ass. And it is the book that I wish I had had 30 years ago, when I started out, and I wish someone had handed me so I wrote it for my younger self, it's a it's a guide to everything that I can think of, for young actors to stay sane and healthy and a not very sane, not very healthy profession. And it translates a lot to entrepreneurs, creatives, anyone who's working for themselves, because it's that there's a lot of the same same issues, that the in consistencies the always looking for work, the rejection, having to be your own boss, having to look for work for a living, and you know, needing to keep a positive mindset. And you know, setting goals having positive habits when there isn't a boss to tell you what to do. So it's a wide, it's the first trip to the buffet for someone to think of all the things that you can do for self care to take care of yourself, then everything I wish that I knew. And then that led to my other book, which is the really resilient actors workbook, because I found that there's a lot of exercises in the book. And people often would read the book and say, that's great, I'm going to do those exercises someday, and put it aside and never come back to it. So by expanding on all of these exercises, giving examples, walking the reader through how to implement all these things, how to go through these exercises, how to set goals, how to find which habits are going to give you the most bang for your buck. And so that's what the workbook is, is really spelling it out. And then there's a planner that I miss a planner that I use. So and then the audio book is the is the first book with me reading to you. So if you would like to hear more of my voice, you can hear me read the whole book for you, which is it's great in this day and age with you know, driving around or gardening or walking the dog, I love to listen to books. So it was important for me to do an audio book.


Jamie  37:59  

I love audiobooks, too. And as far as you know, the business world, if you read any of this statistics on where the audiobook market is going, it is ginormous. It's just huge. And you're right. I am an avid reader, but I don't find myself sitting in one spot to have the luxury of reading anywhere near as much as I used to. But I can have earbuds in my ears when I'm out walking the dog or I'm out taking a run or going for a bike ride or when I'm you know, on a treadmill or something like that, or even, you know, doing all the other chores that I need to do or something repetitive where I don't have to think too much I can sort of multitask if I'm doing some sort of work and listening to audiobooks, but audiobooks are definitely the way to go. And, gosh, they make driving so much better between audiobooks and podcasts, you know, the time to slips by. And then I feel like I've been productive when I got stuck in the car for a while. So I love that and it a book is so much richer when it's in the voice of the actual author than when it's narrated by somebody else. So I love that you did it yourself. And at least to me, Your voice is very, very rich, very melodious that whole actor training is coming out.


Debra  39:19  

Thank you. I thought it was important to read my own book. And I got a few a few people said no first and I said no, I think it's important. It's my life. I get the jokes. I understand what it's about and, and I think hearing the author read their own words. It brings an extra texture, an extra layer that as a narrator as great as they can be just they're not they haven't walked in those shoes. So thank you. It was that was important to me and I'm really proud of it.


Jamie  39:48  

That's great. And where can people buy that?


Debra  39:51  

audible? Amazon audible?


Jamie  39:54  

spectacular. So we've covered a lot of ground. We've been talking for a while you If you had to give a couple of key pieces of reflection back on what helped you in your long and creative and circuitous journey, what would those pieces of wisdom and encouragement be?


Debra  40:16  

Well, I already covered the one which is you know not to put all your value in into one thing, and not just be your especially not your job. So that that's one piece that I would, I would definitely suggest, you have to take care of yourself, because no one else will. So you have to defend your sleep, you have to make conscious choices about what you're eating, really instill those, those habits for yourself, because no one else is going to do it for you. And you really cannot make more contributions to other people, you can't take other care of other people unless you're taking care of yourself. So and it doesn't have to be hours and hours and hours. But taking a little bit of time to make sure that you feel good, and have the energy and the brainpower to do what you need to do and take care of who you need to take care of. So I think those are huge. And have fun, like you said, laugh at yourself. You know, we only at least in my my belief, we only go around once, right? So make sure that you that you're enjoying it and not just not just observing, but really getting the ring and, and take chances and you're gonna fall on your butt, you're gonna make mistakes, you're gonna screw up everybody does, but we also that's an opportunity to learn and, and grow and, and be that much better than next time.


Jamie  41:34  

I really want people to think about that part of being completely okay with failing, and laughing and having fun sooner. Because now that I'm old, I can look back and go, damn, I took things way too seriously for a really long time. And I am posed so much judgment on myself that did not change any outcomes. Like I still went through all the same old motions. It's just if I could have relaxed a whole lot, during all of those things, I may have solved problems sooner, you know, people around me probably would have had a bit more fun because mom wasn't so uptight, or something like that. So I really do think that, you know, almost being able to watch our own lives as if we are on a stage and go. Well, that was an interesting scene. You know, let's move on. But


Debra  42:36  

yeah, and most people aren't paying that much attention to what we're doing. And they're not that judgmental, and they're not that worried about it. They're much more obsessed with what they're doing, and the mistakes that they made, and what are people thinking about them? So maybe we should not produce quite so hard on ourselves?


Jamie  42:51  

Absolutely. Absolutely. Would you please share with the listeners one more time how people can find you to, you know, work with you on, you know, coaching or health or creative? Any sort of thing? Well, the


Debra  43:06  

best way to find me is Deborah w a n g Yeah, that's so Deborah has the books and, and my speaking gigs and coaching information and all that in there. And then the books are on on Amazon and audible.


Jamie  43:22  

spectacular. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me, I really appreciate it. I love your outlook. I know there's a lot of creatives out there a lot of folks who did just have one source of income. And now they're really taking your words to heart of, Okay, well, I didn't think about that before. I won't make that mistake again and go out and find at least two if not more than that. And it sounds like working with you would be a fantastic way to start to feel that balance and sense of equilibrium again, and have the courage to go out and try new things. So thank you so much, Deborah, for sharing your time with us.


Debra  44:03  

It was my pleasure. I really enjoyed it.